The Dick B. Christian Recovery Radio Show Interview on August 9, 2012, of Christian Recovery Leader Chaplain/Pastor Leonard Grubb of Ohio
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You Can Hear the Chaplain Leonard Grubb Interview Right Now!
You may hear Dick B. interview Chaplain/Pastor Leonard Grubb on the August 9, 2012, episode of the “Christian Recovery Radio with Dick B.” show here:
Dick B. interviews Christian Recovery leader Leonard Grubb, August 9, 2012
Episodes of the “Christian Recovery Radio with Dick B.” show are archived at:
Synopsis of the Interview
A word or two about Chaplain/Pastor Leonard Grubb. Leonard got sober in December of 1984, and we will tell you that part of his story in the latter part of this synopsis. And, before that, some major and important points he made during today’s interview. Here also are some details about Leonard’s current status.
Leonard is a Chaplain/Pastor in Painesville, Ohio. He is also a businessman entrepreneur. He heads up Christian Community Missions and a Big Book Good Book Discussion Group. He is the Senior Chaplain of the International Conference of Police Chaplains. Also, as an ordained minister, he takes a group of 17 volunteers into the county jail each week to tell the inmates about the hope that the Twelve Steps bring and the importance of turning to God for help. He is a participating Christian Recovery Leader in the International Christian Recovery Coalition, a member of its Speakers Bureau, and has established a Christian Recovery Resource Center to serve his community in Ohio. He is thoroughly versed in the history of early Alcoholics Anonymous and in the Christian roots of the fellowship. He is also a bold and effective speaker about God, His Son Jesus Christ, the Bible, and their relevance to recovery from alcoholism and addiction today among those who want God’s help and go to any length to get it.
The following parts of his interview deserve particular attention here.
(1) After he got sober, his wife and children left him. He was despondent and ready to take his own life. He turned on the TV and listened to a man who talked about God and Jesus Christ and asking Jesus Christ to come into his heart. He asked Jesus to reveal himself, and that happened – to the extent that his suicidal proclivities, depression, and concerns over family went away. He firmly believes from that, and other experiences, that God is there for anyone who calls on Him.
(2) He sought and received ordination from Christian Ministries International, and that allowed him entry into the county jail where he and his volunteers share each week with some 35 men or 35 women. He has established a recovery meeting at a mental health facility and uses our format, pointing out that A.A. founders used the Bible as the foundation for their recovery program. He is about to start another group – the Twelve Steps of A.A. – and share on God and Christ.
(3) One of Leonard’s most persuasive points can be very helpful to Christians and others in A.A. who puzzle over the mention in Steps 3 and 12 of God as we understood Him.
Leonard takes issue with those who use the “as we understood Him” language as an open door to all sorts of irrelevant “higher powers.” Instead, he said, his take on the phrase is centered on the word “we.” He points out that the founders of A.A. had spent many many hours studying the Bible, reading Christian literature, and praying together. They had turned to God for help. They were not telling people there was no God. Instead they were taking them upstairs, getting them on their knees, and having them accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
When in 1939, Bill Wilson and the little committee of four (which included Bill), threw in the phrase “as we understood Him,” they were not making up some new deity. They were explaining to newcomers that their God was the God of the Bible they had been studying. That they as a group did have an understanding of God. That God had cured them when they had sought Him. And that the Steps were explaining that they had been healed by taking to very 12 Steps that enabled them to turn their wills and lives over to the care and direction of the very God they understood and who had healed them when sought.
In other words, when the Big Book still retained dozens of unqualified references to “God;” a dozen references to the “Creator;” mention many times of the “Heavenly Father” and “Maker,” they were talking of their God as they collectively already understood Him and that others could turn to and seek the same kind of help from the Creator that the founders received.
(4) Leonard pointed out also that they relied on a Creator who looked out for their welfare and who loved them. He particularly pointed to Bill Wilson’s statement on page 191 of the Big Book Fourth Edition, where Bill stated emphatically that the “Lord” had cured him of his terrible disease. The phrases were showing the suffering alcoholics that they could be new creatures in Christ and turn to the God who showed them their alcoholism, delivered them, and gave them the gift of an ability to control their alcoholism instead of yielding to the temptation of a craving.
(5) Ten or eleven years ago, Leonard was confronted with surgery which doctors declared that it had shown them he did not have a malignancy. Then he learned that he had blood cancer. With that, he dropped to his knees and asked God for healing and help. Two weeks later, after he had turned down chemo and radiation, a cat scan revealed that he was free.
(6) Leonard pointed out that he frequently goes to a website that publishes each day one of God’s promises—365 of them in the Bible. And, of course, there are many more. He points out that the Big Book contains twelve promises that show God’s caring. But the 365 promises, and the others he looks for and remembers, tell him to be bold because the enemy can steal the joy if there is no understanding of the breadth of God’s love.
Leonard produces a YouTube presentation which carries his message; and he also points to two Facebook pages – one of which is RecoveryNetwork. He is doing his best to spread his message as widely as possible via new media.